Camille Hardman: Still Working 9 To 5 | FilmInk

Forty years ago, the fire-starting smash hit comedy 9 To 5 – in which Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin and Dolly Parton’s cruelly and unfairly put-upon office workers fantasise about doing in their bullying, lecherous, horribly chauvinistic boss, played by Dabney Coleman – opened up conversations about workplace behaviour, gender inequality, sexual harassment, the pay divide, and a multitude of other subjects that are still being furiously batted about today. In her wonderfully entertaining and insightful new documentary Still Working 9 To 5, Australian co-director Camille Hardman (who has a swathe of TV docos to her credit, and partnered with American Gary Lane on the film) reunited the film’s stars to discuss its making and legacy, while also looking in-depth at the women’s movement that inspired the film and the enormous social discussions that 9 To 5 prompted upon its hugely successful theatrical release, which would eventually lead to a short-lived TV series and a popular Broadway musical.

Were you the right age when 9 To 5 came out? Were you old enough for the film to make an impact on you? Or did you catch it later on video/DVD? What was your first contact with 9 To 5?

“I was nine-years-old when 9 To 5 came out. I remember seeing it a few years later when it was a Sunday night movie on television. I was too young to really understand the underlying messages. When Gary Lane originally approached me to do the project, it had been over thirty years since I had seen it. I immediately watched it again before agreeing to be involved with the project.”

You get all the “big names” here involved with 9 To 5…was that a difficult process? Were all players enthusiastic participants, or did you have to work a little harder on some than others? And did you ever get starstruck? I mean, it’s Dolly Parton…

“Dolly Parton was the first to say yes. My partners Gary and Larry Lane were good friends with Steve Summers, Dolly’s Creative Director, and he agreed to come on as an EP on the project. He was incredibly supportive all the way through, and took the project to Dolly, who agreed to be interviewed. Once we had Dolly, of course everyone said yes. Lily was just fantastic. Jane was super busy doing her Fire Drill Fridays in Washington, so we had to fly there twice to try and secure the interview. Karen Nussbaum, who was one of the original co-founders of the 9 To 5 was very instrumental in getting Jane involved. Dabney Coleman was our last interview in February 2020 before I came back to Australia and the country was in lockdown. One of the hardest people was Bruce Gilbert, Jane Fonda’s business partner and the producer of 9 To 5. It took me two years to get him to commit, and then he sat down and did a four-hour interview with us and really became the unofficial narrator through the entire film. He was the person who really glued all the years together. And Dolly was supportive through the entire process. She did VO for us, so we could get Fair Use on the footage, and even recorded a new version of ‘9 To 5’, which was recorded as a duet with Dolly and Kelly Clarkson.”

Your documentary cannily and perfectly walks the line in the way it entertainingly looks at 9 To 5 itself, and then equally entertainingly takes on its legacy and the continuing struggle of women in the workplace?

“In making the film, there was definitely a fine line of making the film entertaining and funny as an homage to the original film. I talked with Bruce Gilbert a lot of how he and Jane wanted the correct tone for 9 To 5 to attract the widest audience possible. I was very cognisant of that concept. In making the documentary, we didn’t want to preach to the converted. We wanted men, women and people of all ages enjoying the film and having a laugh. When I made Big Dreamers about a small town in Far North Qld building the Golden Gumboot, I did the same thing – I made it a comedy. Even the town of Tully, which featured in the doco, had a good laugh at their local theatre when it screened. There is a fine line between being entertaining and educational, and I hope we have straddled that successfully.”

A woman is seen in the film holding a placard emblazoned with words to the effect of “I can’t believe we’re still talking about this”. Are you stunned that forty years later, so many of the issues covered in 9 To 5 are not only still relevant, but are now actually worse?

“I was stunned and continue to be stunned. In Australia, we are quite progressive, but we have seen over the last few years how many things have not changed, such as workplace sexual harassment, lack of promotion and pay inequality. A lot of this has to do with who holds the power, and I hope that as women obtain an equal status to men in the workplace, the inequality will start to dissipate. In the US, particularly the minimum wage really complicates the situation and women have many of the low paying jobs, so that power quality will remain, and particularly with contract work, because if you complain you will not be rostered on. So you have to grin and bear what happens to you, particularly if you are a single mother supporting children. The options are very limited.”

Do you fear that forty years from now, women will still be holding placards reading “I can’t believe we’re still talking about this”, or do you think the gains made by #metoo and other movements will have a much longer lasting effect?

“According to The World Economic Forum, it will take over 200 years to close the gender pay gap in the US. So there is definitely a chance that in 40 years’ time the gap has slightly closed, but not closed enough to where it needs to be. Again, this is a bigger discussion, but I hope that #MeToo has brought these issues to the surface. I also think it’s down to parents to teach gender equality to their children, because as each generation passes, the older fashioned concept of the separation of men and women will disappear and it will be about human equality no matter what gender.”

The moment in Still Working 9 To 5 when original screenwriter Patricia Resnick is sidelined and then replaced by male writer/director Colin Higgins really stings…did you labour at all over how to present that moment?

“I spoke to Bruce Gilbert about this quite a lot, and it came down to creative differences. The tone just wasn’t what he and Jane were after; they wanted a broad comedy that appealed to both women and men at the time. They understood that presenting these issues from a humorous perspective would have more impact. Men could see themselves reflected on screen and ask themselves ‘Is that me?’ They were serious activists, but they were also incredibly savvy filmmakers, and it paid off, as 9 To 5 was the highest grossing comedy of the year and the second highest grossing film behind The Empire Strikes Back. It started a lot of conversations in the press and in the workplace.”

Colin Higgins was suggested by Hal Ashby. He was an Australian filmmaker from Sydney, and he’d just written Harold And Maude, which was also a black comedy and a cult classic, but he also could write broad comedy. All three women absolutely loved Colin. He was a smart and gentle soul, with a depth of sensibility where he really loved and valued women. That can be seen through the eyes of Harold’s love for Maude. Once I found out Colin Higgins was from Australia, it also made me want to do the project even more, so I could oversee his legacy.”

When you were crafting/devising/editing the film, were there any avenues that you started to walk down, but then eventually pulled back on?

“Sometime in 2019, it was announced there was going to be a 9 To 5 sequel filmed with Jane, Lily and Dolly, and Pat Resnick was going to write the script. When Gary first approached me to do the documentary, it was going to be about the making of the original 9 To 5 and the making of the sequel. I wasn’t particularly interested in doing a puff piece, so I originally said no, but when I looked at the genesis of 9 To 5 and how it came out of a women’s activist secretarial group, 9 To 5: Organization Of Women Office Workers, I knew there was a whole different dimension where we could take the documentary. Also, after the first year, the sequel was kiboshed and we had to pivot. So it became less verite and more talking heads historical archival film. The pandemic also slightly helped confirm that format as well when I was in Australia and our two editors were editing in LA.”

The appearance of Harvey Weinstein (ironically identified as an investor in the 9 To 5 Broadway musical production) is disturbingly amusing…what did you think when you came across that interview grab?

“Bob Greenblatt was the one who alerted me that Harvey was a producer on the musical. So when our archivist sent us that clip, as filmmakers, we were like, ‘This is gold.’ As a woman, I thought, ‘Here is another example where he readily admits out in the open what was going on, but it was always brushed off in the industry as ‘Harvey will be Harvey.’”

Have you seen the film and TV industries change in major ways throughout your career?

“This is a large conversation. From the industry as a whole perspective, distribution of theatrical releases and distribution in general continues to get harder, as companies consolidate and people move away from theatres and watch content via streamers and TV. We saw the golden age of docs, but over the last year, this has changed as well also due to the studio and company consolidation. Also, streamers are commissioning true crime and series about hucksters, crooks and frauds. It was great to see Fire Of Love, Navalny, and All That Breathes reach wide acclaim, as they were all very individualist films with their own personality.”

What do you hope audiences will get out of Still Working 9 To 5?

“One of the biggest things I want audiences to take away from the film is the importance of conversations. The more people communicate in the workplace, with each other and in society, we realise that we are more similar than we are different. There is no need for gender inequality in the workplace or in society. Also, don’t let age hold you back! Working with Jane, Lily and Dolly, I saw how they work tirelessly. They just keep going with their careers, activism and philanthropic pursuits. Personally, that has been hugely inspirational to me.”

Still Working 9 To 5 will have its Australian premiere at The Inner West Film Festival on Sunday April 2 at Palace Cinemas Norton Street. Camille Hardman will be in attendance for a very special Q&A session after the film. For further information and ticket sales, click here.